Can you tell DONTPOSTME a little about yourself and your background?
My parents are Australian – my Dad originally Lebanese. I was born in England and raised in Hong Kong. I moved to London to study, and now I live in Germany. I’ve made exhibitions in Moscow, Marrakech, Zurich, Venice, London, Berlin, Los Angeles, Reykjavik, and a few other places. I grew up playing in punk bands. Now I’m a curator.
In many interviews you said that you had began to study philosophy in university but than you moved to learn history of contemporary art. And as I know your first experience was an essay about Ilya Kabakov in this field. Could you tell me about this process of moving and your first steps in studying of history of contemporary art? And when did you understand that a contemporary art is the main theme for your career?
I always loved art. I was good at painting, and took it right up to high school graduation. I became interested in Philosophy through artists’ writings when I was about 15; specifically, the Futurist and Surrealist manifestos. My school didn’t offer Philosophy as a subject, but I started to explore it on the side. When it was time to move on it was a hard to decide whether or not to choose the art academy or a philosophy degree. I choose the latter and really loved it. When it was over I was sure that I still wanted to explore art. I figured that Art History might be a middle ground between Philosophy and art practice so I enrolled in a Masters degree at the Courtauld Institute, in London, called ‘Postmodernism and Postcommunism in Europe and Beyond’. I loved it, but was even happier to discover that there was a profession (of sorts) called curating that was even closer to the action! I stayed on for a PhD, and began to curate outside of my academic time. It was only during my Masters that I discovered the world of contemporary art, the gallery scene, biennales and art fairs! Before then, a life in art was more of an abstract idea to me.
You are an independent curator and as you said in interviews you don't have any ideological or political basis for your job in contemporary art. But you work in contemporary world with many advantages and disadvantages. How do you select an idea for exhibition and how do you share this idea with artists?
I don’t think I’ve ever said that there is no ideological or political basis to what I do! If anyone studies my catalogue essays my positions are pretty apparent! I’m still fascinated by the manifesto as a form, and almost all my writing argues for a particular vision – each exhibition as its own worldview. Just because I don't’ say ‘this is an exhibition about how consumerism is bad’, or because I don’t like filling my exhibitions with blunt statements, that doesn’t mean my work is not political in the broad sense! Look at the Antarctic Pavilion, in Venice – the whole concept for the Pavilion is a commentary on the value of the 1959 Antarctic Treaty, and an argument for Antarctic enterprise as ideological!
When I am generating a group exhibition, inspiration often comes from what I am reading. I try to only pursue projects that interest me. That is a privilege, of sorts, but that’s precisely the point! I do this because I can’t think of anything more interesting to be pursuing in the cultural-social-economic space. Nobody has appointed me to this position, and I don’t have a salary – I earn my status through the projects. If people want to have the same freedom, or think that my projects are boring, they can create their own. One of the best forms of criticism is creation. I have always believed that, which is why I work as a curator and not an art historian.
I’m interested in things that I think are exciting visions for what art can be, or do, today. When I encounter a great new work of art I often find myself asking – How is it possible that this amazing thing happened at all?-as opposed to being just another example of mediocrity, idiocy, or complicity with oppression? Artists can teach us how to scale the bullshit mountain! Culture is always political.
I'm an young artist and founder/editor-in-chief of independent magazine about contemporary art and I know what kinds of obstacles could be in work of artist and the one of problems is the relationship between artist and curator. "Curator" (like a figure in contemporary art) becomes a very controversial - he could help young artist (up to 35-40 years) to express ideas and opinions or he could ignore works by artist or artists and promote his personal vision. What do you think about this problem?
It depends who you’re working with, and what institution (concrete or ideological) the curator represents. The commercial gallery scene has strong market agendas. Museums have their historical and political cultures, etc. I would suggest that you work with people who give you the feeling that more is (artistically) possible, with them than without. As much as you can, work with people who excite you, who feel like peers or conspirators on a shared journey. But don’t be naïve! Everyone has their own interests (even if these are only intellectual). People who work in the non-commerical cultural sector are mostly there because they believe in art too, and might have also developed opinions/creative agendas after years of working with it. These people have also been outsiders at some point, and have often sacrificed financial gain (or stability) to do what they do. When you come across someone who is really living with art, you better respect them as a peer. I didn’t come to this sphere in order to be a personal assistant to any and all artists who demand it. I have my own agendas! But we can certainly explore how ours overlap…
Another big problem: Now in Russia and in countries where contemporary art isn't popular like in the USA and the EU I see how curators don't contact directly with young artists and many projects (exhibitions, biennale and etc.) couldn't help to construct a strong relations between art institutions in capital or in big cities and regions. What will be happened in this broken contruction between curators and artist to change situation for better?
Create your own cultural reality! Make your own exhibitions! Curate your peers! Start a website! Occupy a space! Work with the resources at your disposal and don’t wait for some art angel to float down from heaven and lift you up on their wings. If I learnt two things from my study of Moscow Conceptualism, it is that even under the most difficult and limited conditions you can still make art of great significance to international culture; also, that in the absence of some higher institutional validation, you can create your own communal structures. It might take work, but it has every possibility of being more interesting that what is already out there. Also, get online.
Now many researches of art, artists and people who love art would like to become a curator. What do you think about this movement? Is it a problem or not? What is the main problem for curating now?
While curating is more visible that it has ever been, it is badly paid. And there are less jobs available than you would imagine. There is a lot of writing coming out of curatorial courses about the ‘profession’, but its economic basis is still limited.
Let me ask you about your personal job. On your your website I've found an awesome list of exhibitions which were curated by you, also I've found same awesome list of artists who cooperated with you. Could you name the best exhibitions in your career? And could you choose best artists who worked with you?
I would say Treasure of Lima: A Buried Exhibition, which took place on a remote Pacific island - without any audience - is my personal favorite. Google it!
Exhibition exists in a space and some says museums and galleries are the best places for show art. Could you tell about your personal project - Import Projects, and could say about your relations with galleries and museums? And, please, choose galleries or museums what you love.
I started Import Projects, in Berlin, with my wife Anja Henckel. We did it because we found an affordable space that would allow us to make the exhibitions we wanted to do without having to ask anyone for an opportunity or permission. If you have the chance, running your own space is a great way to learn about exhibition making, to get to know artists, and to build a community and audience for your work. Museums are a very different kind of beast – they have collections and corporate structures. I like being able to work quickly with minimal bureaucracy, but there are so many good museums. The Reina Sofia, in Madrid, and the Pompidou, in Paris, are two of that I love.
You have many projects with russian artists and artists from postsoviet space. Also you are a curator of V Moscow Biennale for Young Art in 2016. In your career Russia and the USSR have a special place and my question is: What do you think about russian contemporart art now? Could you name the promising artists from Russia who could be famous like as Kabakov, Novikov or Bulatov?
I don’t know who will be famous. Come to the exhibition and decide for yourself!
The one of your last project is about nature and consequences - Desert Now at Steve Turner gallery in Los Angeles. But 2 years ago you have curated exhibition about physical measure - One of a Thousand Ways To Defeat Entropy at Venice Biennale. On my opinion these exhibitions are linked by main ideas - the death of life and ruins of human universe. First exhibition were represented by three Berlin-based artists Julius Von Bismarck, Julian Charrière & Felix Kiessling, the latest one were represented by Hans Op de Beeck, Adrian Ghenie, Ryoichi Kurokawa and Alexander Ponomarev. Could you tell more about these projects?
In both of these projects, artists were engaging with the idea of (human) control over nature, and its limits. While One of A Thousand Ways to Defeat Entropy addressed a physical law (entropy), Desert Now was focused on cultural mediations and the museumification of such conditions.
And one of my last questions: how will a curating be changed in close future? Could you share your opinion with me?
Curators do not necessarily require a physical gallery space to make exhibitions. Most types of digital media (including photography, video, sound, auto-cad, VR) work extremely well online. There are some really exciting things happening with sites like newscenario.net and ofluxo.com, also digitalmuseumof.digital. I certainly don’t mean that art will only happen online in the future, but there is increasing scope to do progressive things online that aren’t just for tech-geeks. I also like the idea of ‘curating in the expanded field’, beyond the gallery. Scientists have already succeeded in encoding texts into the nucleotides of DNA, why not exhibitions at the molecular level?
What do you planned for 2017? What ideas do your want to realize?
I am working with Russian artist Alexander Ponomarev on the 1st Antarctic Biennale, which will take place at the end of the world in March. Watch this space!